00:00:43:11 - 00:01:15:07

Now, I want to come back to something that you said that I thought was was really spot on and that was around how opinions are really a projection or a rationalization to avoid the fear facing the fear. And actually reminds me what you're sharing. It reminds me of something in the Hermetic by Hermes Trismegistus where he says that the two greatest sins, if we shall, are the two greatest vices of humanity, is number one godlessness. 


00:01:15:09 - 00:01:49:08

So meaning not honoring something sacred. And number two, mere opinion, mere opinion. And yet in our world today, in our modern society, everybody is so full of opinion and even taught to have an opinion. What's your opinion about that? But these mere opinions are based on just forming an opinion versus what you said, which is digging in deeper to really do the research, to really come to understand the nuances of the situation and the intricacies, the with clarity and to have firsthand experience. 


00:01:49:10 - 00:02:23:14

Just as you said, you have firsthand experience with like the royal family, for example, where so many people in the world just form an opinion because they've never actually met them. They just see, you know, and then they they end up projecting. So, you know, as we you know, we have our own filters, right? And so often how we perceive others has to do with whether we ourselves are identifying more with our our light and our wholeness and our integrated self, or whether we are caught up in our shadow side. 


00:02:23:18 - 00:02:59:24

And if we're identifying with our light and our wholeness, then we tend to also view others through their light and see that light and that potential within them. But if we're caught up in our own shadow, then we tend to project our own shadow or our fears or our attachments and opinions onto other people. So we see them through our shadow versus it actually being their shadow. So maybe you can say a little bit more about how the shadow side you also mentioned the shadow, how the shadow side really comes out and influences our our perceptions. 


00:03:00:02 - 00:03:04:14

Our behaviors are, you know, what's happening in the world today. 


00:03:07:19 - 00:03:38:03

Yeah. It's so easy to criticize, isn't it? It's much more difficult to laugh. And so believe that what we're waking up to is that if we keep accusing and blaming, there is no resolution. All we have is conflict. And I would suggest in a very escalated way, in a very accelerated way. That's what the paradigm, the gestalt of the war between put Mr. Putin because it's not the Russian people, it's Mr. 


00:03:38:05 - 00:04:21:05

Putin and the body stay the sovereignty of the nation and the people, the wonderful people of the Ukraine. We're seeing it right there that the you know, this is hopefully one of the last vestiges of the warring raging patriarch who wishes to oppress, manipulate and coerce and will do anything to bring about those ends. This is the intellectual ization of opinion. Asian. How could one possibly perpetrate such cruelty and violence if he was living within his gut or indeed within his heart? Because automatically we would feel the suffering of others. 


00:04:21:07 - 00:04:53:14

In other words, the virtue of the empath opens and we begin to see a very, very different human experience taking place. So if we can really investigate blame and accusation, it's so easy. We've been intellectualized, educated, socialized, conditioned into being divisive or diverse. What we've been encouraged to do is to speculate and have opinions about certain theorem and to criticize and to judge, which why could not fall into that. 


00:04:53:16 - 00:05:24:01

As a child, I could not. It seemed that the competition was absurd because it brought about distemper, it brought about cruelty, it brought about conflict, it brought about disunion. But when people started loving it unified. So I've never been one for competition and therefore I've never taken part in competitive sport. For example, I've observed it from a point of view of the the beautiful bodies in their excellence, living through that potential, which is extraordinary. 


00:05:24:03 - 00:05:59:15

But I'm not interested in watching how it competes or how they compete with self. This is purely egoic. The heart is not open. And of course we began it. We're beginning to understand that even in that situation there are decisions being made. And in order to support the excellence of the physique, the physique or the physiology that the athletes are taking, supporting drugs. So the ego comes in and competes. However, to back to the original premise that if we have the ability to have insight and resolution, we cease accusing and blaming. 


00:05:59:17 - 00:06:31:15

So that seems to me to be a really interesting pattern, mental pattern or gestalt or to cease accusing and blaming, have insight into the action. But then I'm called for in often in public sector situations to look into situations that have been brought about through confrontation, particularly with our wonderful men of the world, the female executives of the world who are not being heard in the boardroom by the men, and they're constantly being squashed by the men. 


00:06:31:17 - 00:06:59:24

And so often in human resources, I'm asked to come in, particularly with Diana, the voice of change, and speak about what sounds can we make that always brings to a point of empowerment that always bring us to our sovereignty so that all peoples listen, that we become a magnetic force rather than an opinionated electrical force, which is about dispersal. It's not about unification. 


00:07:00:20 - 00:07:39:20

Well, and that brings us also to some of the work that you do both when you worked with the Shakespeare Globe Theater as well as much of your work with people who are on a, you know, in positions of leadership or needing to be public speakers and you're this voice alchemist and you know, this master of how to use the voice in a way that really delivers the message. And, you know, if we go to just for a moment to your time at the Shakespeare Globe, you really helped people, the actors, to not just play a role, but really deliver a compelling performance and, you know, something that moves people. 


00:07:39:22 - 00:08:11:24

So it's it was more, I could say, even embodiment, you know, helping them to embody the archetype of the character or even perform like an archetype magic that really brings the presence and the energy and the vibration, the resonance in. And you have kind of carried that over as well, it sounds like, to your work with other people who are very notable people. Who are also on that world stage in some way, or the CEO in the boardroom who are also trying to deliver their message. 


00:08:12:02 - 00:08:29:02

So how how has voice and your work with them to especially accentuate or really feel into the essence and the the archetypal energies that they're wanting to deliver? How do you work with them in that way? 


00:08:31:03 - 00:09:06:22

Lovely, lovely question. Of the core of my work is the belief that sound is at the core of creation. And we see this in all the varying vessels that we relate to is the world of science. We talk about the Big Bang, not the big silence 13.9 billion years ago, Whatever it was of the actor, his or her voice is absolutely crucial because it's one of the core mechanisms that they use to communicate the richness of what's going on within to the outside. 


00:09:06:24 - 00:09:38:20

Many of us who stand on the outside, we see it as performance. The true actor doesn't see themselves as a performer. They see themselves as a player. And that playing is about a deep, deep core reality within their creative energies. It's more about being the doing the performer do's the the player is being. And so it's a conundrum within acting because obviously acting means action means doing. 


00:09:38:24 - 00:10:10:09

So We can use this as a paradigm to understand our own consciousness. But the last thing that we need to do is to do, do, do, do, do. Otherwise we just become control freaks and we become burned out and hyper adrenalized. But if we balance doing with being, if we really look for the inner impulse of why am I being this, what do I want to achieve? How does this feel? We move on to a deeper premise and a deeper promise, which is that at the core of great acting is a truth of feeling statement. 


00:10:11:07 - 00:11:01:05

It's all about that in simplicity. That's the thing that magnetize is you whomever we are, to watching the TV, watching the film, watching the stage performance, watching, watching, watching a what creates presence within the individual that magnetize us to them. So what I've done either behaviorist I'm a complete autodidact. I've learned this by living and experiencing. And for example, what I mean by that is that in my role, both as training young ones in a conservatoire situation, which I did for nearly 20 years and then graduated to Shakespeare's Bleu, because it was time to reconstruct the project that was a recreation or a reconstruction, I should say, of what the theater was about in 1597 that contained the great works of Shakespeare. 


00:11:01:07 - 00:11:34:08

Now, even in the building of that, but everything was absolutely organic and in relationship to the times. So what we did was to find woodsmen and master craftspeople who knew what the techniques were that brought about the creation of that building. There isn't one nail used. For example, all the wood is fitted into mortise and tenon joints. The idea is that although it looks permanent, it can be taken apart at any point and move somewhere else. 


00:11:34:10 - 00:12:16:21

So there is the the absolute crux of the vital change aspect or as we see today, the instability of our lives. How do we create flux from permanency? And then we go down to what they were wearing on stage because there was a tenant in our work, in our Constitution, that we would have modern practice productions of Shakespeare and original practice. And I was employed specifically with the with the view of original practice. Modern practice can do anything with wear whatever clothes and approach the playing of those words and the building of those relationships and situations from a very modern perspective of how we live our lives today. 


00:12:16:23 - 00:12:53:18

Where as soon as we move into original practice, we worked with a master craftsperson or a mistress craftsperson person who this wonderful designer called Jenny Tremaine, who researched the clothes that they wore 450 years ago from the great portraits and found people around the world that still are able to create everything by hand, no foul crow, no zippers, everything, or going all the way down to the under drawers, the under undergarments, no Marks and Spencers or Janet Reger No, absolutely. 


00:12:53:20 - 00:13:26:24

The fabric that was used was fabric that was worn at that time. All of the dyes were vegetable dyes. And interestingly, most of the time to to create the architecture of the way that the women wore their clothes, they would be often pinned into the clothes. And that's one of the reasons why they had this stomach, which was this wrapped circular piece of fabric around the their midriff, which was also a symbol of the divine feminine. And the fabric of the dress would fall over it. 


00:13:27:02 - 00:13:56:24

So you couldn't put your hands down. Otherwise your hands would be sort of like this. You held your hands like so. So you were always in a position of reverence and veneration and prayer. Well, it goes right into the. But you see, we're going back into a culture. This is before the rise of literacy. It's before the noise, it's before the machines. We live through a culture of noise. No wonder we're running around and talking in our heads like this because there's so much noise. 


00:13:57:02 - 00:14:33:17

We want to get over the noise as opposed to really living in the substance of what is most essential about us, which is our heart and the way that we feel, because feeling is the language of the soul. So by observing, by being, you know, I call myself a behaviorist because I've sat for hours and hours and hours in rehearsal rooms and other other situations watching people present. And of course, we all know that if we present inauthentic clay, which we often do because we doubt ourselves, we don't feel worthy that what we dare to do is we show off and we perform. 


00:14:33:19 - 00:15:08:24

It's much more difficult, perhaps because of the way that we've been educated and conditioned to come deep into the very core of the way that human beings feel in remarkable situations. And that's what makes great theater in. You know, to sum it up, to encapsulate it, it was something that mark this extraordinary actor who's considered by his profession as the leading actor of today, Sir Mark Rylance. But Mark is a human angel. And so he and I were able to dance together in the creation of his extraordinary work. 


00:15:09:02 - 00:15:23:11

And we created together something called the Magnetic Voice, which he is an extraordinary exponent of. And now making big movies for Spielberg is being sought after by a lot of the American actors who said, How does he do that? 


00:15:23:13 - 00:15:24:06

What is he. 


00:15:24:08 - 00:15:27:19

What how does he and say he's not doing it? He's being. 


00:15:27:21 - 00:15:29:17

It. Yeah. 


00:15:30:05 - 00:16:01:04

So really for our own lives, because acting holds a mirror up to nature. Do you see, I just looked at the thesis of the experience, what acting is all about, made sense of it. And I take it into other situation because it's a beautiful, beautiful paradigm for us all, that we're all living as actors on a stage, but are we living in the performance and showing off and being grant eloquent and egocentric, or are we actually really living our souls? Are we living the impossible to our essence is really all. 


00:16:01:06 - 00:16:01:21



00:16:02:06 - 00:16:34:20

So maybe really like for anyone who's who's presenting or delivering some kind of a message to, you know, when we're delivering it just from the intellect or just from the mind, it, you know, it only it doesn't really sink in and penetrate into the person's being. But when they shift into the the heart space, the soul space, like in a really embody the feeling of it, they be it Now the energy is delivered and the message isn't just through the words. 


00:16:34:22 - 00:16:47:21

There's a there's another essence of vibration that comes and resonates within the soul of the receivers or the people who are, you know, watching this performance. Yes. 


00:16:49:02 - 00:17:29:10

Thank you. Up ecstasy excellently rather and particularly in the token of that when they've delivered the information. And I would say that we act as if they're worth our salt. We say we share the information, which is a very different experience. The delivery is in external form. Is this okay? Is this right? And the sharing is I'm experiencing something here and I feel that it's quintessential. I feel that I'm given the responsibility of sharing this with you, that by sharing this with you, I may just alter the way you perceive your days and nights. 


00:17:30:20 - 00:17:55:10

Lovely. And there lies redemption, Do you see? So the beginning of the play sets up the situation and the complexity. The middle of the play dives into the complexity and sometimes a tremendous amount of psychological dilemma. And then by the time we reach the end of the play, we're literally being lifted up through a process of redemption. Jax marries Jill and all should be well. 


00:17:57:04 - 00:18:36:20

Now, one of the one of the things that I really want to explore into before our time runs out is that, you know, we've talked a bit about some of the devolution that is happening, the regression or almost like a retrograde, like the Earth is going into a retrograde itself, like where we're devolving in it. If we see it in the entertainment world, we see it in our politics, we see it, you know, in social narratives and so forth. There's like this kind of reversal devolution that's happening and, you know, your experience with with this Shakespearean work is that it's so archetypally based. 


00:18:36:22 - 00:19:13:02

And you mentioned that, I mean, when we when any one of us hear like a well performed Shakespearean play versus what we watch maybe in today's, you know, kind of mainstream live streaming on Netflix. Right. The quality is they're incomparable. I mean, the quality of these more ancient works or Shakespearean times, Elizabethan golden age times, it's so much richer. And and yet and today it's it's just a quantity versus quality. 


00:19:13:08 - 00:19:41:21

And I was, you know, want to talk about that and also want to talk about you had mentioned the four archetypes that show up again and again and again in the Shakespearean work and this sort of evolution that happens through these four archetypes. What are those four? Why are those four so important and how do we evolve through them to come to a state of greater wholeness and embodiment? It's a lot, so go for it. 


00:19:44:07 - 00:20:18:02

Well of course the the. Yeah. Haven't I love this and haven't thought about it for a long time but the I felt myself so steeped within remembering what it must have been like before the noise, what it must have been like before the machines in 1597 when the theatre on the South Bank first opened. Originally it was in the northern part of the city, still within the city walls in an area called Shoreditch, which is an interesting part of the city of London. 


00:20:18:04 - 00:20:57:20

And then it was moved by the the players, by James Burbage and all his men and. The Lord Mayor of London said that we would go to the theatre to hear the play. Whereas today we speak of going to see the play. So we talk of spectators rather than audience. So they heard sound in a different way because noise was not around mean you had the noise of the cartwheel. The noise may be if we call and hopefully it was the monarch of the church bell which ordered the day but nobody wore these things or, you know, the sundial, etcetera, etcetera. 


00:20:57:22 - 00:21:32:23

They they were alive in their bodies and in association with Mother Earth and with the essential medieval belief of the anima mundi, the animating principle of the universe, which of course today we call or or may the force be with you. And so the Lord mayor of London said in 1597, I think his name was Richard Green, or speech is decorated silence. Now, when you think about that, that's extraordinary. And of course, we've all had the experience of being in the depths of nature and there is no traffic noise or electrical pollution. 


00:21:33:01 - 00:21:59:20

And we hear our voices in a completely different way, or being right out at sea or on the top of a mountain. It's completely different experience. So our sound making is uniquely different. We go deep, deep into the visceral experience of what it is to feel and share the way that we feel for. The prima motive, the prima generative of our beings, which is to connect and to connect with meaning. 


00:22:02:01 - 00:22:34:02

And so when you consider that the audience at that time only an 8% of the population could read. So if we can't read, you hear words in a completely different way because you don't have any, any word images in your consciousness. You have symbols and illustrations, but it works in a very different way. And of course there is a magic within Shakespeare's words, which is why we're still speaking them meaningfully. I hope that spells we literally become spellbound. 


00:22:34:04 - 00:23:05:11

And in the practice of working this theater, we notice that for the first ten years of its creation, that our population, our audience would be a population of 93% box office success. And you think, Wow, that's pretty good, because the West End was doing something like 35% success through an aggregate of all the different theaters, the main theaters in the West End. And it's only for a six month summer season because it's open air and it's too cold to stand there in the middle of winter listening to, you know, actors on a stage. 


00:23:05:13 - 00:23:38:19

I know this because I've done it because the Globe Education Department would take over for the winter and was one of the prime people that were there was a whole team of us that worked. The the vast educational department where 95,000 schoolchildren go through the globe every year. And then, of course, I would deal with the undergraduates or the postgraduates who were fascinated. I created a conservatory in the theater for young American actors who would come from Rutgers University, New Jersey, and spend 26 weeks or whatever in London working at the theater. 


00:23:39:16 - 00:24:01:24

So we begin to realize that there was a totally different experiential about the way that those words worked. However, the paradigm that I wanted to offer was that the majority of them, 93% of box office success was based on something like 60% or 65% of foreign nationals who possibly could not understand because they. 


00:24:02:02 - 00:24:02:17



00:24:03:06 - 00:24:33:14

Maybe they had obsolete English as a second language, maybe a third language. But you're dealing, as you were saying earlier, with heightened language, to be or not to be. That is the question. We don't speak like this today. And of course, it has a certain rhythm, which is the rhythm of the heartbeat. However, how is this useful to us today? So it brings us into an understanding that right at the very core of the success of these spelling plays is are a series of compounds. 


00:24:33:16 - 00:25:08:18

So all of the players are based on the Kabbalistic Tree of Life or the Rosicrucian Tree of life, because the people who wrote them and don't believe it was William Shakespeare, a humble glove maker from Warwickshire, believe that William Shakespeare is actually anointed for will. Am Shakespeare Will am, which is, after all, what we're doing today. We're learning the great I am so am is brought about through will will av shaking spear the image of Pallas Athena who the goddess of wisdom and the goddess of war, who is always seen with her spear. 


00:25:09:01 - 00:25:41:03

And so if she shaking her spear at us, she's wanting to disturb us. If the spear is still in, she's smiling. Then automatically we feel as though we're being enraptured by the divine. So there are there are these interesting poetic elements that lie within. And as you were saying, within the body of the writings, not only is there the Tree of Life, but also there are four essential archetypes that keep popping up the lover. The warrior, the sovereign and the magician. 


00:25:41:16 - 00:26:28:11

And so each person who is significant, meaning each person who is iconic within the play, the major characters, is moving through a sequence of understanding what these roles, what these archetypes reveal to them about their essential consciousness, the totality of the individuation process, as we call it today. So if we relate these to a contemporary frame such as the young princes, Prince Harry and Prince William, Prince William and Prince Harry, firstly, they were these beautiful young men, these lovers, and then we saw them join the army and they became practiced warriors, not professional soldiers. 


00:26:28:13 - 00:27:01:08

But at the core of their work was the understanding of duty, was the understanding of team effort, of being a member within the organism, which is known as the regiment or the battalion or whatever. ET cetera. ET cetera. And then as we see them now, they're moving into the role of sovereign. They may not have literal crowns on their heads, but certainly we see William being groomed to eventually take over from his father. 


00:27:01:20 - 00:27:50:01

I think Charles is obviously going to assume it's going to have the crown on his head. But this is a man that's waited for over 70 years and is not really interested. It is much more interested in how he can heal the planet. So he will use the road to heal the planet. Harry, on the other hand, has become a displaced sovereign because he's chosen to take his bride to the birthplace of her emission, into the into the consciousness of humanity and find his own kingdom and is doing extraordinary job of creating that kingdom through the emancipation and the liberty of all human beings, and therefore moves into the high Priestess or the high priest, the magician becomes truly magical. 


00:27:50:23 - 00:28:25:18

So that's just a very sort of watered, watered down illustration of how these archetypes keep popping up within the place. And they are useful to us today. What my great colleague Lynn MacDonald, who is the master of movement, although she's a lady, we were always using the masculine generic, which was based on the fact that in the craft skills the apprentices would be employed at the age of 14, sometimes younger, and they would work for a journey person for seven years and learn the basic skills of whatever the craft was. 


00:28:25:20 - 00:28:47:23

And then they would be tested and work for another seven years on a higher degree and then they would be tested and they would meet the master and they would work with the master for seven years. So after 21 years, they could possibly be elected to being a master. So being a master means that you have durability. 


00:28:49:14 - 00:29:32:11

It doesn't mean that you have a laurel around your head. It means that you just simply have explored moments of downfall and moments of excellence, moments of wrongdoing, moments of right doing, moments of rejection and moments of triumph so that the skill becomes stronger and stronger and stronger. But all masters, particularly that time, believed that they had a guardian angel called a genie, and it was the genie that gave them the genius to create. So they were always allowing the excellence of their deliberation, their sharing their their craft skills, their excellence to become part of the divine harmony of the cosmos.